A. Melonite Processing : Salt™ Bath Nitriding System window.addEventListener("load", function(){ Tennifer, melonite, armornite, etc. A. Hi Bob. 2004 but continuing through 2018. Would this perhaps explain why we're seeing the S&W product developing oxidation? Start by running a WET patch in the bore when u get it back... "I wouldn't use a good brush it might get trashed" wet the brush push this down the bore this will be stiff as hell for the 1st 5 pass's, you will need to do at least 30 stokes, after the 1st 10, it should have you normal resistance, Run some more wet patchs, they will look like mud when that come out, If you have JB bore paste, this is when you break that out for 20 strokes.. if no JB, us can use flitz or other polish on a patch. A. Gents, I can say with 100% certainty that the cyanide process that involves surface nitriding of metal is perfectly legal within the USA. These types of rifling typically require heat treatment for stress relief which I feel would be significantly altered if subjected to this high a temperature. Unlike chrome lining where the chrome is built up on the surface, nitriding converts the surface with out the risk dimensional build up causing fitment and function issues.". 11 years with Mauser, 6 with Walther, 3 with Steyr, and owner of the company BOCK known as "Bock mounts" in the US If it can be refinished, what is the best way to find a reputable company that will do a good job? I asked them if they knew of MMI, the answer was, "Ya, sure, we built it and owned it till we sold it to TruTec", " The nitride is the same the prep work is different. this process uses a salt-bath process, too. Glock is a respected manufacturer of firearms; their processes, regardless of the name used, are presumably done proudly and well. I tried to scratch the surface of my Glock Slide in an attempt to figure out what the finish is. [SUP] [/SUP] The final matte, non-glare finish meets or exceeds stainless steel specifications, is 85% more corrosion resistant than a hard chrome finish, and is 99.9% salt-water corrosion resistant. MELONITE is a thermochemical treatment for improving surface properties of metal parts. If you have SS part "this can ONLY be done on SS", H&M can do this.. You can send in stuff that is "duracoated" or similar, they will strip it.. Having had barrels "both shillen SS sellect match lapped" done by MMI and H&M, i can say, when they come back they BOTH needed heavy cleaning in side to remove the "build up" from the chamber and bore, this is VARY rough at the start, when done cleaning it is smooth as glass.. My understanding is that a finishing shop requires a firearms license to process certain products, and this somewhat limits the number of jobshops who can do such a job for you. I know this because I currently regulate 2 such processes right here in Springfield, Ohio. Its a great boon to rifle building and should be considered for all who want a custom rifle built. Black Nitriding is a chemical process (in a salt bath) that infuses carbon and nitrogen into the metal, and the black color being a byproduct of the saturation of carbon. PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition) coatings come in many, many varieties of which W DLC is but one. ©1995-2021 finishing.com, Inc., Pine Beach, NJ   -   About finishing.com   -  Privacy Policy If you need a product/service, please check these Directories: Jobshops Capital Equip. are all trademarked types of nitride in use by Glock, Smith & Wesson, etc. I have experienced no issues with any of them. A. Q. })}); Not a lecture hall but a roundtable with a seat for you! A. I may be right. The resulting surface is extremely hard which makes it very resistant to wear and corrosion. Smith & Wesson didn't just pull Melonite out of a hat. Let me know if I can be of further help, A. I can confirm 100% the statement of Mark L. To learn more about salt-bath nitriding for barrels, or to place a processing order with MMI-TruTec, email joelkndrck [at] aol.com, or call Joel at (704) 616-6442. Typically this "finish" has better wear resistance than Cerakote. Firearms have it pretty easy. See our Line of Nitride BCG's. Tenifer and Melonite are trade names for firearm finishing processes that involve salt bath nitriding. Black Nitride goes by a few names, Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, Melonite, SBN "salt bath nitriding", QCP and Tenifer, that are all names for the same thing, the only difference would be Tenifer, this process is used in Europe with a different cyanide formulation bath "EPA wont allow that in the US". The normal temps for steel in the gun industry is from around 975 to 1100. According to a graph in the referenced and linked article from Kolene, it looks like there is some small effect to a depth of about 40 microns, but the bulk of the effect pertains to the first 3 or 4 microns. Regards, A. I am a technical adviser for firearms industry work, and full time weapons designer and custom rifle builder, and I can assure you that the process can be used on both Button and Hammer Forged barrels. Melonite/Nitriding exceeds the chrome lining in almost every way and hardens the metal much deeper than chrome lining. A. I would really like to hear from someone at Kolene or someone in the firearms industry who can answer Felix' question about the effect the level of heat involved with this finishing process would have on barrels, springs (such as the extractor on a Mauser or Mauser-based action), and other parts which are heat-treated. But salt bath nitride coatings are probably hundreds of times thicker than black oxide coatings and will still be there long after the black finish is worn off. Black Nitride goes by a few names, Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, Melonite, SBN "salt bath nitriding", QCP and Tenifer, that are all names for the same thing, the only difference would be Tenifer, this process is used in Europe with a different cyanide formulation bath "EPA wont allow that in the US". Lap the bore and scrub out the chamber good. } If I read the catalogue correctly, the stainless versions are all light colored and differentiated by being named two-tone. The difference is in the use of cyanide (I think). I don't know whether it is or isn't. The process may also be used as a part of liquid Nitriding treatment. From what I understand - Tenifer can't be applied in the US because the EPA won't allow it. “Melonite,” “Isonite,” etc are all branding terms for various similar nitride processes. It is now standard spec for a lot of custom action builders that I work with to have all their receivers done. THEY ARE THE SAME EXACT THING! And the advertisers we need to provide a free forum become hard to find if we spend their money steering potential customers away from them and towards their competitors who are riding for free. We Ultra Sonic dip clean every gun that comes in the door to make sure they are 100% clean inside and out so we have no imperfections in the nitride.". Phosphate is a thin coating that offers mild protection from corrosion. They both use a molten cyanide bath to introduce the nitrogen into the structure of the metal part being nitrided. Hi David. A. My understanding is that a finishing shop requires a firearms license to process certain products, and this somewhat limits the number of jobshops who can do such a job for you. Joined: Aug 24, 2008 Messages: 1,231. A no-registration-required forum naturally draws them. Filippo. His charge $75 a barrel plus $25.00 shipping fee ground. They have a onsite firearms consultant, metallurgist, full test lab and salt spray chambers. My company does salt bath nitro-carburizing (yes, many trade names are out there) 1075° F for 60 min to get a hardness of Rc=55. BENEFITS The resulting surface is very smooth and extremely hard which makes it very resistant to wear and corrosion. Thanks, Levi. My employers plant does a lot of rifle barrels for major OEM contracts so if it were a problem we would know. Bill. }); Q. Providing consistent high quality products and services to our customers at competitive prices, while being in strict compliance with all environmental, safety and health regulations. I believe that it is simply an EPA issue, in two separate processes, each having the same end result. Q. I recently purchased a S&W 696-1 revolver manufactured around 1998. A. I would never subject a rifle barrel to that high a temperature if the barrel were of the button rifled or hammer forged variety. 4-seat luxury car, or a 6-seat family sedan to suit changing times. It remains a popular case hardening technique because it offers: The method features the transfer via diffusion of carbon and nitrogen from the molten salt to the surface of a steel part. The benefits are not limited to only these attributes, nitriding also offers a lower coefficient of friction. There are ways to fix this, and it seems like S&W did. Through practical experience, I have to disagree that they are the same. http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,41326.0.html, http://blacknitride.com/img/friction-test.jpg. 416 stainless can have reduced corrosion resistance when certain types of nitriding are applied. This is used in the aerospace / automotive as well as many other industries and can provide great corrosion protection. Just because they are the same finish doesn't mean they are applied the same way. Also, SBN can not "chip" off like chrome or other coatings... resistance and same lubricity as black... but not as hard. How salt bath nitriding works. All are actually nitrocarburizing processes that use molten salts as a source of nitrogen (+ some carbon). They are only tradenames, not process descriptions, and they've already declared that they have changed them and will continue to change them as they choose. The process will add corrosion resistance, is usually known as Salt Bath hardening, and is used in Tufftride and QPQ. Robinson arms and many many more... they know guns.. And that's whats important. A cut rifled barrel of high quality chrome moly steel might make a good experiment for someone to try, however, as an experienced gun smith, I would not want to be the first to pull the trigger in an unprotected environment. The Engineers at Smith & Wesson knew that Melonite over Stainless, was a pretty advanced finish for Firearms slides. Q. ", "Nitriding offers improved wear, abrasion, and corrosion resistance when compared to hard chrome lining or phosphating. Instead of adding material to the bore (like Chrome lining), Nitride treats the existing steel by imbuing nitrogen into the steel itself. I think some people use the rule of thumb that it's about 5 microns thick. A. "text": "#237afc" Okay, so if these two processes are the same, how come I've seen Smith and Wesson firearms that are Melonite treated rust/corrode, but Tenifer doesn't? This is done through a gaseous plasma or a liquid salt-bath and there are various nitrocarburization processes depending on the technical need. These processes are categorized as molten salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing. Fluidised bed/salt bath nitriding/nitrocarburising is a process used to improve the wear resistance, fatigue strength and, when combined with post oxidation through oxidative cooling, improved corrosion resistance on products made from steel, cast iron and sintered iron. Mission Statement. The internet is largely anonymous & unvetted; some names may be fictitious and some recommendations might be harmful. Thanks in advance. I tried to go back and edit my old posts about this in order to update them but I can't find them, so I thought I'd start a new thread that would pop up when people are searching about melonite, salt bath nitride, ferritic nitrocarburizing, black nitride or nitriding rifle barrels. Is anyone here familiar with austempered ductile iron (ADI)? Salt Bath Nitriding Xylan Coating Phosphate Conversion. Salt-bath nitriding changes the surface area molecular framework of the metal for about four-eight microns. Joel Kendrick is a two-time IBS 600-yard Benchrest Shooter of the Year. Now some more wet patchs to clean that out, they should be black but should feel as smooth or smoother then when you sent the gun in. 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